November 14, 1979
Page 32283
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Wisconsin.
Mr. NELSON. Mr. President, I say to the distinguished Senator from Maine that all of the issues were considered. This Senator also comes from a cold State. Up near Rice Lake, Wis., we beat the most severe temperature Minnesota or Maine had last year; we hit 61 degrees below zero.
Mr. MUSKIE. I have been in 72 below zero temperatures.
Mr. NELSON. But not last year. I was looking at the records.
Mr. MUSKIE. Not last year. But I predict with the help of the Senate we may this year.
Mr. NELSON. But I remind the Senator that all of these issues were considered; all of them were raised. This Senator represents a State that is a very high-level cold degree day State. We have a very substantial number of cold degree days.
I wish to say further, that this issue is not new to the Senator from Wisconsin, as I offered the legislation in 1974 which created the program under which emergency assistance to the poor for energy has been provided in 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, and even this year.
Mr. MUSKIE. I was the author of that legislation myself, may I say to the Senator, the Community Services Administration program. I got it into the first budget resolution in the conference, so I have been for it for a long time.
Mr. NELSON. Let me say to the Senator that the legislation under which this authorization is based is an amendment to the Economic Opportunity Act, section 222(a) (5), which I introduced and which was adopted in 1974. That is the authorizing legislation.
Mr. MUSKIE. I understand. I am simply identifying myself with the origins of that legislation with which the Senator identified himself, so if age of exposure to the policy qualifies one to judge the adequacy of a committee bill, then my credentials, perhaps, are similar to that of the Senator.
Mr. NELSON. I was not making any suggestion they were not. The Senator left the impression from his talk that the issue was not well considered.
Mr. MUSKIE. I did not.
Mr. NELSON. I wanted the Senator to know, if he did not know it, that I authored the authorizing legislation. I have worked on it for 5 or more years.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. NELSON. So I am well aware of what the issues are.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. NELSON. I will not yield. Let me finish my statement.
Mr. MUSKIE. All right.
Mr. NELSON. I just want him to understand all of the various issues had been well considered.
Mr. MUSKIE. I did not challenge that point, Senator.
Mr. NELSON. They are not brand new.
Mr. MUSKIE. I did not raise that point. You raise a red herring.
Mr. NELSON. I am happy to hear that. The Senator gave the impression that the issues had not been well considered by the States from the north, and that is not so.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. NELSON. No, I will not yield. I did not interrupt the Senator.
Mr. MUSKIE. I did not—
Mr. NELSON. I did not yield to the Senator. Speak on your own time if you wish.
Now, we struck a compromise which, I think, is reasonable. There is no perfect formula. As I said, I would rather have the formula the Senator from Maine and the Senator from Minnesota are advocating, but that was not what we could get passed.
Furthermore, it is fair to take into consideration increased energy costs of people who come from warmer States. If you are poor and have to cook your meals you have to cook them whether you live in Florida, Louisiana, or Texas or California, and it comes out of your pocket — you have to eat just like everybody else.
Now, we took into consideration therefore as half the formula the household energy costs.
I will agree with the Senator it would be better if we had the facts to determine precisely what the costs were for poor people. But those facts are not available any place in the United States, and we directed that they be made available by HEW. They were directed by the Finance Committee to conduct a study and give us the figures so that we could tailor them in a more accurate fashion to the needs of the poor. On that score I agree with the Senator from Maine.
But we do not have the figures. There is nothing we can do about that at this time.
Several Senators addressed the Chair.