October 19, 1977
Page 34397
Mr. MUSKIE. May I say, in deferenceto my good friend from California, Senator CRANSTON, as well as my good friend from Montana, Senator MELCHER, I regret to say that as these amendments have been modified in language it is very difficult to stay on top of the budget implications. But as of 5 minutes ago the word from my staff was this probably breached the ceiling, to the best of the information available to us, following the modifications of these amendments and that, at this moment, I would not be arrogant enough to suggest I have a hard and fast figure. But I know that this bill has been skirting with the ceiling all day long as we considered these amendments.
I wish I were in position to give the Senator a hard and fast figure, but because of the doubt on that score I find myself not in a position to support the Melcher amendment.
Mr. MELCHER. Mr. President, there is no hard and fast figure for these amounts.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield at that point
Mr. MELCHER. Yes, I yield.
Mr. MUSKIE. I hope the Senator is not making the point that the budget resolution is such that there is never a hard and fast ceiling.
Mr. MELCHER. No, I would not make that point.
Mr. MUSKIE. But that is a point that could be made if one wants to rationalize at any given moment, and one could add components of the budget functions and conclude that there is room for something else. That is always true of every function at any point until the last legislative measure of the year is basically acted upon.
But if one waits until that point, then one is never in a position to exercise budgetary discipline. That is the message I have tried to convey to the Senate for some 3 years now.
Mr. MELCHER. I accept the chairman's admonition, and I think it is valid. But my point is there are no hard and. fast figures on what it is going to cost in this case because we do not know exactly which veterans will respond.
Mr. MUSKIE. That is true of every entitlement program, Senator.
Mr. MELCHER. That is correct.
Mr. MUSKIE. And yet we have to cost out entitlement programs if we are going to have budget ceilings.