May 4, 1977
Page 13589
UP AMENDMENT NO. 192
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I send to the desk an amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. MELCHER). The amendment will be stated.
The assistant legislative clerk read as follows:
The senator from Maine (Mr. MUSKIE) proposes an unprinted amendment numbered 192: On Page 1, line 9, delete —
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that further reading of the amendment be dispensed with.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
The amendment is as follows:
On page 1, line 9, delete $497,900,000,000" and insert in lieu thereof "$504,600,000,000."
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, this is a technical amendment that simply corrects the budget authority figure from the resolution to reflect the results of the three amendments which we have already adopted.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the amendment of the Senator from Maine.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that a table showing the functional totals for budget authority and outlays and the final figures on revenues, deficit, and public debt reflecting the actions taken by the Senate today be printed in the RECORD at this point.
There being no objection, the table was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, as follows:
[Table omitted]
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I understand that there is no requirement for a roll call vote on agreeing to the concurrent resolution unless—
Mr. ROTH. Mr. President, I intend to ask for the yeas and nays.
Mr. MUSKIE. The Senator from Delaware intends to ask for the yeas and nays.
Mr. HARRY F. BYRD, JR. Mr. President, I ask for the yeas and nays.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there a sufficient second? There is a sufficient second.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
Mr. HARRY F. BYRD, JR. Mr. President, will the Senator from Maine yield to me?
Mr. MUSKIE . I had promised to yield to the Senator from Massachusetts for a couple of colloquies. I will then yield to the Senator from Virginia.
Mr. BROOKE. Mr. President, I have two items, if I may have the attention of the distinguished chairman of the Budget Committee.
Mr. HARRY F. BYRD, JR. Mr. President, may we have order?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will be in order.
Mr. BROOKE. For controllable health programs, the Senate Appropriations Committee recommended $8.6 billion for fiscal year 1978. This amount was the result of careful consideration by our committee. We believe that increased funding is needed in health services, biomedical research, research training and support, health professions training and health planning, to cite just a few important areas. Most or all have been hard hit by inflation and there is need for program expansion to capitalize on gains already made and to reach more of the disadvantaged.
I would, of course, prefer the Budget Committee adopt the $8.6 billion we recommended, and I hope we can live with the $8.3 billion that you have decided upon. On the other hand, the House recommendation of $7.6 billion is far too low. Thus I hope when you go to conference with the House, you will feel that $8.3 billion is a sound figure and that you will fight to preserve it.
Would you advise me whether this is your view and your intention?
May we have the Senator's comments on this point?
Mr. MUSKIE. I will, of course, do my best to hold the functional totals we agreed to. The Senator from Washington (Mr. MAGNUSON) is a conferee, and is well known for his effective advocacy in behalf of the Senate position, and I would be surprised if between us we could not hold to this number.
Mr. BROOKE. I thank the distinguished chairman of the Senate Budget Committee for this assurance.
Mr. President, I have an amendment to assure that $300 million will be available under the international affairs function for a medium term loan to Portugal. It is not my intention to offer the amendment at this time, but I would ask the distinguished chairman, is the decision finally taken in the Budget Committee for that function that the funds would be available for a medium term loan to Portugal in conformity with the Foreign Relations Committee's recommendation?
Mr. MUSKIE. The answer to this question is that that program was assumed, but not in any kind of line item manner, as the Senator understands.
Mr. BROOKE. Obviously I can understand that.
Mr. MUSKIE. The Budget Committee did make some reductions in the international affairs function, but where those reductions are to be made is up to the authorizing and appropriations committees.
Mr. BROOKE. I simply bring that question up to be sure that there are funds in there that would be available. I hope that the authorization and appropriations committees will include the total $300 million in their recommendations, because obviously there is great need for it. Portugal has been very friendly to the United States, and is very important to NATO, and I hope they will be able to receive that funding at the $300 million level.
Mr. MUSKIE. May I say further to the Senator from Massachusetts that, as I understand the priorities urged upon us by the authorizing committee, I expect there will be room in the function for the loan program.
Mr. BROOKE. I thank the chairman.
UP AMENDMENT NO. 193
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I have an unprinted amendment which I send to the desk and ask for its immediate consideration.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be stated.
The assistant legislative clerk read as follows:
The Senator from New Mexico (Mr. DOMENICI) , for himself and Mr. McCLURE, proposes an unprinted amendment numbered 193.
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the reading of the amendment be dispensed with.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
The amendment is as follows:
At the appropriate place:
To reduce the aggregate amended Resolution levels to their original dollar amounts of (billions):
Budget authority $497.4
Outlays 459
Deficit 63.2
Federal revenues 396
Public debt 790
BA and Outlays in each functions to remain as recommended in S. Con. Res. 19. Reduce budget authority and outlays by $7.2 billion and $0.4 billion respectively to budget authority 497.4 and outlays 458.8. Deficit, $63.2. Reduction, $395.6.
SPECIFIC FUNCTIONAL REDUCTIONS
450:
Budget authority, from $8.1 to $7.6, change,0.5.
Outlays, from $10.7 to $10.7, change, none.
600:
Budget authority, from $179.9 to $173.7, change 6.2.
Outlays, from $145.9 to $145.9, change, none.
700:
Budget authority, from $20.3 to $19.8, change, 0.5.
Outlays, from $30.2 to $19.8, change, 0.4.
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I would be willing to enter into a unanimous consent agreement to expedite this amendment; which will take me no longer than 10 minutes on my side. What would the distinguished Senator from Maine need?
Mr. MUSKIE. Well, not more than 1 minute.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, the time limit on the amendment is 10 minutes for the Senator from New Mexico and 1 minute for the Senator from Maine.
Mr. DOMENICI. I would construe the Senator's desire to have 1 minute to mean that he does not have very much opposition to the amendment.
Mr. MUSKIE. I suspect I do not need the 1 minute.
Mr. DOMENICI. Let me proceed and see if I can finish in less than 10 minutes.
Basically, what my amendment does is to return the budget resolution to the status it had when it came to the floor from the Budget Committee. That means I have adjusted three functional areas and the resultant conclusion is by way of summary.
That means that principally I am here to try to urge that the Senate understand we are moving in the direction, very rapidly, of emphasizing only outlays and forgetting about budget authority.
It is easy to say, "Why should we worry about this amendment that Senator DOMENICI is offering? Really, all we have done today is add $400 million to the deficit."
That is right, because only one of the amendments adds to the outlay figure for this year. That is $400 million that is part of the amendment that the good Senator from California offered.
But let me say a vote against my amendment is a vote never to have abalanced budget, or at least to defer a balanced budget into 1982, 1983, or maybe 1984. We have found, after 3 years of working on this budget, that we have grown accustomed to being worried about the deficit, and we are all worried about it. So today what we have started is a trend. Bring to the floor an amendment that says, "It is not going to cost anything this year. It calls for $6 billion in new budget authority for housing, but do not worry about it, because it does not change the deficit one bit."
That is right. But it will change the deficit next year and the year after that and the year after that.
Budget authority, just as sure as we put it in, does not disappear. It shows up next year and the year after in uncontrollable expenditures. I encourage Senators, who have voted to add to these functional areas, because they want to support a program, to vote for my amendment and return these targets to where they were.
There is not a single amendment to add to budget authority or outlays here today that anyone other than an interested authorizing committee member of this institution wants and thinks is needed, not the President, not a single one of the Cabinet members, save and except perhaps Secretary Harris — and I will talk about that in a minute on one function. Other than an authorizing committee member who has a genuine interest in expanding their program, no one who has come here with that kind of approach.
Mr. PROXMIRE. Will the Senator yield?
Mr. DOMENICI. I will not yield at this time because I do not have very much time.
I want to remind Senators that if they expect their Budget Committee or the appropriating committees in the Senate to ever control the budget of the United States, then there is no way Senators can come to this floor with amendments that are loaded with budget authority so that they can go home and say, "I did not affect the deficit; there is no impact on the deficit this year; I am for controlling the Federal purse strings," and put in budget authority that shows up next year and the year after and the year after.
Mr. President, there is absolutely no need to add the $6 billion in budget authority under housing; there is absolutely no need to add the $0.5 billion in budget authority for community development. It may be questionable in that if we want to adopt a new community development program, a new one, with urban action grants, then we need it. There is no need for it for the community development program that we have on the books. What we are doing here today, in the interest of promoting a program that has little cost this year, is telling this Senate:
You voted for those amendments and you can go home and say you did not affect the deficit. For you who want to go home and brag about helping a program, you can say you voted for the veterans, you voted for housing, and you voted for community development.
But let me assure Senators, those are not the issues. There will be plenty of money in this budget by the time we get to the second concurrent resolution to adjust within the targets. But Senators may very well put themselves in an irrevocable position where new authorizations will be forthcoming that fits these targets which will eat up that budget authority and begin us down that trail. We will not retreat. There will be no way to retreat. We will never arrive at a point where there is any discipline whatsoever.
We already understand the great changes which occur in this budget when the executive branch decides to change its stimulus package. We already understand the bookkeeping and the outlay figure being subject to huge variances because of shortfalls. But those are things that the budget process will ultimately understand. At the same time, they will provide some latitude within these targets to get some of these programs in between the first and second concurrent resolutions.
Mr. President, to add this amount of budget authority here on the floor of the Senate is dynamite.
Mr. PROXMIRE. Will the Senator yield?
Mr. DOMENICI. I will yield in a moment.
It is literally indicating to the Membersof this institution that the Budget Committee is going to be charged with an undoable job, a job they just cannot do. We cannot build discipline into the future if we add $7.5 billion in budget authority here on the floor of the Senate. It is not going to work.
We have not been conservative in any of these target figures.
I believe it is safe to say that we have added sufficient funds to adequately stimulate this economy, to provide well for every program that exists, and, yes, to even give some latitude for new programs.
Having said that, I will ask the Chair how much time I have remaining.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator has 30 seconds remaining.
Mr. DOMENICI. I yield 30 seconds to the Senator.
Mr. PROXMIRE. May I ask the Senator if it is not true that what the two amendments did in housing and community development was simply to restore the amount the President asked for these programs. We do not go one penny above the budget requested by the Office of Management and Budget. We restored what the Congressional Budget Committee cut. The Senate Budget Committee made a recommendation that we go below the President's program. We simply restored that amount. We did not add onto it. We restored it.
The Senator asks who asked for it. The President asked for it. The Office of Management and Budget asked for it. There is not an excessive program which goes beyond the request.
Mr. President
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I ask for the yeas and nays.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Mexico asks for the yeas and nays. Is there a sufficient second? There is a sufficient second.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I gather I have 1 minute.
Obviously, the decision reflected in the Senator's amendment is one that I have supported this afternoon. I shall support his amendment. I do not know that any elaboration of that is necessary.
It is late in the day. I am quite aware of the margin by which we lost on those amendments. I am not sure that I am very optimistic about the result, but I applaud the Senator's interest in bringing the numbers back to where they were when we started. So I shall support his amendment.
I am willing to yield back the remainder of my time.