October 7, 1977
Page 32855
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield me some time on the bill?
Mr. JAVITS. Senator Williams has as much time as I have on the bill. We have been using a lot of it.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, what is the time situation on this amendment?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the opposition has expired. The Senator from Maine (Mr. HATHAWAY) has 10 minutes and 4 seconds.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. JAVITS. I am happy to yield.
Mr. HATHAWAY. I yield 5 minutes to my colleague.
Mr. WILLIAMS. The Senator controls the time.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Maine is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, years ago the distinguished Senator from New York, Senator JAVITS, was kind enough to pay me a compliment on an occasion when I managed the model cities legislation on this floor, and I think that my efforts in that debate had a lot to do with the fact that that legislation passed. He complimented me on understanding the problems of the cities, the problems of those who live in the cities.
May I say to my good friend from New York that the problems of the less urban areas of this country, the rural areas of this country, deserve some understanding as well. The situation in northern Maine is one with which those of us who live in Maine have been aware all our lives. We have never been conscious that what was involved was an abuse of children or what was involved was some kind of rural sweatshop.
The Senator asks, "Why 10?" Well, I ask in return, "Why 12?" It is we who impose age limitations and age thresholds by law. The people up there were managing this kind of community value fine, until we got involved, with no complaints from anyone. Never in all my public life have I heard any complaint from a soul, from the children in the area, from the parents, from the unions, or from anyone that we were somehow exploiting and abusing children.
In every community in which I have lived in Maine, the notion that children, as early as possible, should develop work habits has been very deeply ingrained. When I was 6 years old, my father owned a house with a tree covered lot in back that he converted into a garden. Who did the work? I did, working all summer long, clearing the area of brush, picking up rocks, splitting logs, and weeding the garden. I never complained. Our neighbors did not complain to my father that I was being abused. As soon as I was old enough, I went to work weekends and summers in my father's tailor shop, learning that trade, learning that skill. I never felt abused. My neighbors did not hold my father up to ridicule and say, "What are you doing, conducting a sweatshop?"
What we are talking about in northern Maine, and I suspect it is true in Oregon as well, is a family and community endeavor. Everybody benefits; everybody. In the coastal community where I have been privileged to live, and where I spend such time in the summers now as I can, I see children all over the community cutting logs for neighbors, for whatever they can get.
Nobody suggests they ought to be subject to the minimum wage law. Children of well to do parents do that, in order to acquire the work ethic, and they put their savings in the bank for their college education.
My son began, when he was 13 years old, carrying bags on the golf course, and I assure you he does not get the minimum wage by this standard. I do not feel I am exploiting him. Nobody else does. Unfortunately, the golf cart has reduced that opportunity, but I see him carry two heavy bags around 18 holes, and then willing to do it for another 18 holes. I do not feel he is abused.
You know, really, Mr. President, I think we carry these notions that only Washington knows what the important communuity and family values are too far. This is a legitimate enterprise that we are talking about in these rural areas, with parental supervision and community supervision.
The educators of the community recognize its value. They close the schools during the harvesting season and begin the school year early in order to permit the children to do this sort of thing; and they participate in the supervision.
Yet we are told that somehow we are breaching a concept of child labor. Describing this as child labor, in the sense of child labor, is breaching a concept far older — far older, and deep in the traditions of our country — than the concept of which the Senator from New York speaks.
You know the feeling on the part of grassroots citizens in little communities across this country that somehow they no longer have any control over their lives or their children, that no longer can they do anything in order to create opportunities for them, is at the base of much of the disaffection with Government on the part of the average citizen. Parents that I am exposed to in my State these days have one overriding concern in the summer months: that their children have nothing to do. And in every community I hear parents say, "Why can't we find something for children to do?"
Here is something that they do today and that they have been doing for years, and I have not, in 30 years of public life — and I campaign in this area — in 30 years of public life I have not heard a single voice in Maine protest this custom.
And it is well known all over that State. It is well known. But the first voice of protest I heard was down here, when, in the Halls of Congress, wise men decided that what we have been doing all these years was somehow wrong, immoral, and must be destroyed.
Yes, I say to the Senator from New York, it is important that we understand the problems of the city, the problems of the children in the cities, the problems of the deprived in the city. But you outnumber us, and when you seek to impose your perspective of life on an area of the country where it is irrelevant, totally irrelevant, you are not giving us the understanding that you ask for your own community.
So for this reason I was delighted to sponsor this amendment, on which my colleague has taken the lead, and in which we are joined by the distinguished Senators from Oregon and the distinguished Senator from Washington. None of us is regarded as a conservative that I know about. I will not attempt to hobble my good friends on the Republican side with any definition of their philosophy; but I think it is clear that none of us are conservatives, and we have supported this concept.
I was instrumental in getting minimum wage legislation incorporated into Maine law, and nobody in the Maine Legislature has ever sought to modify that law, which they passed, to prohibit what we are talking about here with respect to the potato harvest in Aroostook County.
Mr. McCLURE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time on the amendment has expired.
Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I yield my. self 2 minutes on the bill.
I was asked a question by the Senator from Oregon about newspapers. The law of the State of New York prohibits delivery of newspapers by any child under 12. We are trying to practice what we preach.
But, Mr. President, be that as it may, I would suggest — I think we have debated this matter very thoroughly, probably much longer than we should have. I suggest that perhaps if we had a short quorum call, not to be charged to either side, we might try to put our heads together and see what can be done about this situation.
Therefore, I ask unanimous consent that I may suggest the absence of a quorum without the time being charged.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. JAVITS. I withhold it.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that John Haynes, of the staff of Senator Anderson, be granted the privileges of the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. McCLURE. Will the Senator yield 2 minutes on the bill before calling a quorum?
Mr. JAVITS. Yes.
Mr. McCLURE. First, I have two comments. The Senator from Maine said none of us are conservatives. He was speaking of those who had already spoken in favor of the amendment, as though there is an implication, which I would have to reject, that the exploitation of child labor is a peculiarly conservative phrase.
Mr. MUSKIE. I hasten to add that I did not mean that.
Mr. McCLURE. I would not want that implication.
Second, although from Idaho, I will support the amendment of the Senator from Maine even though we cannot send 10 year olds out to pick Idaho potatoes. We have to send men out. If the Senator has a problem with their potatoes, we would be glad to help. [Laughter.]
Mr. MUSKIE. I am glad to hear that the Senator's part of the country is that viable. They have done a good job.