September 14, 1976
Page 30323
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I understand the appeal of both facets of this amendment. The upper end of the amendment would not affect my State but the lower end would. It makes a lot of sense.
But, let me point out that the result of this amendment would be to move two-thirds of the fourth quarter payment from the beginning of fiscal year 1978 to the end of fiscal year 1977. The result of that would be to cause a bulge in the budget in 1977 which would bust the ceiling by an estimated $1 billion. These payments are now made within the first 5 days of the quarter succeeding the quarter for which the payments are provided. It is on that basis that, of course, the budget limitations of revenue sharing were computed in the first concurrent resolution and the second concurrent resolution. To change the payments now means that the outlay effect in fiscal 1977 would be as I said, $1 billion higher than is provided by the second concurrent resolution. On that basis I have no choice but to oppose the amendment.
Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, in answer to Senator Muskie, I would have no objection, either here or in conference to make the plan effective so that it does not interfere with the budget we have adopted for fiscal 1977. I would gladly do it now or await the conference. In other words, to make this plan effective as of the new fiscal year of 1978.
Mr. MUSKIE. I do not know how we can do that for fiscal 1977. It would have to be done in fiscal 1978. The payments are going to begin, I assume, unless I have read this incorrectly, in fiscal 1977. We would have to extend the last quarter payments until the following year.
Mr. JAVITS. Could we make it effective January 1, 1978? That would be all right then, would it not?
Mr. MUSKIE. That would pass the 1977 budget limitations.
Mr. JAVITS. But that would solve the problem; is that correct?
Mr. MUSKIE. It would.
Mr. JAVITS. I have no desire to interfere with the budget resolution.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that I may modify my amendment in accordance with the modification which I send to the desk, to have the date read "January 1, 1978."
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. MUSKIE. But your modification would not solve the question of the substantial additional interest costs to the Treasury.
Mr. JAVITS. This does not in any way change anybody's allocations. The allocations remain precisely the same. It is just a question of the time of payment and the convenience and problems which are created for individual jurisdictions.
Senator HATHAWAY and I differ on the amount which is involved. We believe that the amount of $40 to $45 million is correct for this reason: We believe the figures the Senator is giving, which are quite bona fide as far as the Senator is concerned, were given in connection with our original amendment. Our original amendment was not the same as this one. It related to the payment at the beginning of the quarter. This amendment relates to monthly payments. On average, the cost to the Treasury is about half. That is why we gave our estimate of $40 to $45 million.
In orders of magnitude, of course, in a bill of this kind, whether it is $45 million or $65 million, it is not such a big deal. But I did want to make clear that our estimate was valid because we believe the figures which the Senator used were directed to an amendment which I did have and gave notice of but which is not the one that we submitted.
Finally, Mr. President, the aim of revenue sharing is to help the communities. That is the aim of doing it. So why do we play ducks and drakes with them for amounts relative to the whole which are not proportionate to the universe which we are attacking? That is what we are doing. Many of these jurisdictions in my own State, and I think the views of other Senators will bear this out, have to go out and borrow the money. They fully expect to get it but they do have to borrow it. The public is paying anyhow and it is paying more. Hence, the revenue sharing is less effective than it ought to be, and that I feel both Houses intended it should be.
For those reasons, Mr. President, I hope my amendment, as modified, will carry. I am prepared to vote.
Mr. HATHAWAY. Vote.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the amendment, as modified, of the Senator from New York. The yeas and nays have been ordered and the clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk proceeded to call the roll.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will be in order. The clerk is having difficulty hearing the responses of Senators. The Chair asks that the well be cleared, and that staff members take their seats.
The clerk may proceed.
The result was announced — yeas 28, nays 57, as follows:
[Roll call vote tally omitted]