June 23, 1976
Page 19876
Mr. MUSKIE. Mr. President, I had not expected that this discussion would take place so late in the day. When possible, I like to give the Budget Committee reaction to the appropriation bills, so that Senators may give that consideration, as early as possible. Other matters, however, intervened, and I was not able to get to it.
It is my intention, Mr. President, to discuss this bill in the context of the overall procedure which this year, under the Budget Act, governs the consideration of appropriation bills. I do so with a distinct impression, Mr. President, that maybe I am wearing out my welcome around this place. I do want to point out a change in procedure relative to last year that is well-illustrated by the bill before us.
Last year, as Senators will recall, the first concurrent budget resolution had simply one overall spending ceiling that governed all the functions of the budget. This year we have 17. As a part of that procedure, the conference report on the budget, which comes out of the conference between the House and Senate Budget Committees, allocates budget authority and outlays to the Appropriations Committee and other appropriate committees. The Appropriations Committee allocates from its allocation to the subcommittees.
Now, every Senator has received a 4-page pamphlet that the Appropriations Committee has distributed which shows the breakdown, and I ask unanimous consent that the pertinent part be printed in the RECORD at this point. It is not long, and yet I think it might be very useful.
There being no objection, the excerpt from the report (No. 94933) was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, as follows:
ALLOCATION OF BUDGET TOTALS TO SUBCOMMITTEES
The Committee on Appropriations submits the following report in compliance with Sec. 302(b) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974.
The Budget Act requires that as soon as practicable after a concurrent resolution on the budget is agreed to, the Committee on Appropriations shall submit to the Senate a report subdividing among its subcommittees the allocation of budget outlays and new budget authority allocated to the Committee in the joint explanatory statement accompanying the conference report on such concurrent resolution.
AMOUNTS CONTAINED IN BUDGET RESOLUTION
The conference report on the First Concurrent Resolution on the Budget — Fiscal Year 1977 (revised version approved by unanimous consent on May 12, 1976) provides total budget authority in the amount of $454.2 billion of which $292.9 billion is allocated to the Senate Committee on Appropriations. With respect to outlays, the conference agreement provides $413.3 billion of which $273.1 billion is allocated to the Senate Committee on Appropriations.
ALLOCATION TO SUBCOMMITTEES
In developing its recommended allocations to the subcommittees, the Committee took into account:
(1) Committee recommendations in the March 15 report;
(2) Recent changes in the budgetary environment (such as budget amendments, action on the Second Supplemental Appropriations bill for 1976, and revised economic forecasts) ; and
(3) Recommendations deriving from adoption of the First Concurrent Resolution.
Following these guidelines, the Committee has subdivided budget authority and outlays among its subcommittees as follows:
Mr. MUSKIE. If Senators will turn to page 2 of that document they will find that the Appropriations Committee was allocated by the conference report on the budget, budget authority in the amount of $292.9 billion, and outlays in the amount of $273.1 billion. That, in turn, was distributed by the Appropriations Committee to its subcommittees, the first listed of which is that on Agriculture and Related Agencies chaired by the distinguished Senator from Wyoming, Senator McGEE.
That subcommittee was allocated $12.1 billion in budget authority and $12.0 billion in outlays.
Now, the bill before us exceeds those amounts by $80 million in budget authority and by about $140 million in outlays. I will yield to the Senator from Wyoming in a moment to explain that.
There is another thing I want to say about this document. The Appropriations Committee reserved in the last two lines of this table for undistributed amounts for contingencies, the pay raise, and savings a total of $6.2 billion in budget authority and $2.2 billion in outlays. I take it that the Appropriations Committee did that for the purpose of building in some flexibility for itself down the line as the appropriation process proceeds.
That $6.2 billion in budget authority and $2.2 billion in outlays is not earmarked specifically in this report for any particular purpose.
Conceivably, it could be used to cover the overages in the pending bill.
There is another item which the distinguished Senator from Wyoming mentioned this morning that should be covered.
The pending bill provides $4.8 billion for food stamps. The Congressional Budget Office's estimate is that $6 billion will be required. As the Senator fromWyoming pointed out, the food stamp bill, which the Senate considered earlier and which the House is considering now, has the potential for changing the amount that may be required for food stamps.
I take it that the Appropriations Committee has included implicitly in the amount for contingencies some amount for supplemental appropriations to the food stamp program.
Am I correct in that?
Mr. McGEE. It is my understanding that this reserve was provided to accommodate any contingencies which might arise. Food stamps are not specified in this contingency reserve but if a need arises for additional food stamp money this might be a source for additional funds.
The intangibles that are associated with what the food stamp drawdown may finally have to be changed, because of a number of factors. We have to make an educated guess, which was made at the beginning of the year, but that has to be adjusted as the year progresses.
Mr. MUSKIE. There is another item that conceivably will have to come out of that undistributed amount of contingencies, and that is an amount for pay raises.
That, I take it, has not been allocated to subcommittees. If the President's anticipated formula comes to the Congress, it will amount to about $700 million that will be required to come out of this contingency account for pay raises throughout the Government.
Am I correct on that?
Mr. McGEE. That is correct. We will not know that until the President's decision at the end of August, under the present formula. That will still depend upon what percentage he were to recommend and, likewise, whether Congress will accept that.
Those are all unknowns yet.
Mr. MUSKIE. I wanted to draw that out in order to demonstrate how tight this budget is.
The amount for contingencies that is listed at the bottom of this document is not really free money. We can already see almost $2 billion on the outlay side that will be a claim against that contingency account. Senators who are tempted to offer amendments with respect to any of the appropriations bills ought not to be looking at that undistributed amount in contingencies as a way of passing those amendments.
Am I correct?
Mr. McGEE. The Senator is absolutely correct.
Mr. MUSKIE. I say to the Senator, the way the tax bill is going at the present time, it is very clear there is a potential for pressure against the ceiling on the deficit. If we do not provide the revenues that were anticipated in the budget resolution, and if we do not provide those revenues, we may well have to turn to the spending side of the budget in order to hold the deficit down.
The only place to which we can turn, conceivably, to pick up some savings on expenditures is the undistributed amount in contingencies. That is already pretty well nailed down, as I gather from our colloquy here, in things that are uncertain as to amount, but certain to come somewhere down the line.
The table on page 2 of this document, which shows amounts that I think the Appropriations Committee has most appropriately distributed, is an indication of how tight this budget is.
If we increase any of the appropriation bills, the pending one or the Public Works appropriation which we considered earlier this morning, above the amounts allocated by the Appropriations Committee itself, we are in danger of breaching the overall ceiling on spending.
I simply wanted to get the reaction of the Senator from Wyoming to that conclusion.
Mr. McGEE. I say to the distinguishedchairman of the Senate Budget Committee that he is not an unwelcome visitor as far as this subcommittee chairman is concerned. I think what he has been doing with his committee has been most responsible, and it has given a credibility to the sense of responsibility on the part of this particular body.
I have to report that the Agriculture Subcommittee on Appropriations made every effort to weigh the equities and the inequities and try to sort out the priorities. We were allocated $12,100,000,
000 as our proportion of the appropriating process. The subcommittee, doing the best it could with the variables of judgment, came up with a figure $20 million under that — under that — and we felt we lived up to our responsibility.
In the full committee, other things happened. An excellent measure was submitted, most excellent, to increase the rural water and sewer grants. because of the attitude downtown, where they had asked for none of it. So the amendment was proposed in the full committee to increase that by $100 million.
We had already put in $100 million from zero, and we had an $85 million carryover from the last budget. We felt that was a responsible way to approach it. But, in the wisdom of the full committee another $100 million was added on to that. That put us over.
I opposed that, dear as the program is to me and out our way. It is an extremely valuable program, good, needed, desperately needed. But we were trying to meet our responsible commitment and we exceeded it because of full committee action. I regret it.
Mr. MUSKIE. I understand what took place.
Mr. McGEE. But it was done. The conference may cause us to make adjustments in the totals, which would bring us under the target.
But I could not underscore more strongly the importance of the kind of responsibility that the chairman of the Budget Committee has been living up to in his unpopular, but not unwanted, role.
Mr. MUSKIE. I thank the Senator.
May I just say in closing, I understand what took place in the full committee.
Mr. McGEE. I still do not believe it, but it did.
Mr. MUSKIE. I understand.
I want to make it very clear — I think I have tried to make it clear over and over again — that the Budget Committee is not a line item committee. We make certain assumptions as we put together the totals to submit for the first concurrent resolution. We are not line-iteming it. We are simply trying to characterize the nature of the decisions we took in reaching a total.
But I gather that in the full committee the action taken was by way of suggesting that the Budget Committee had taken a line item decision.
Without characterizing it further, I just say again for the RECORD that the Budget Committee is not a line item committee. It is for the Appropriations Committee to establish those line items. If they appear to differ from some of the assumptions the Budget Committee made in its deliberations, it is the Appropriations Committee recommendation that counts and it is their responsibility to live within their own allocations.
I hope that this colloquy might be useful to the Senator as it comes out against similar problems in the future.
Mr. McGEE. It has been very useful. I thank my colleague from Maine (Mr. MUSKIE) for having made it possible.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent to correct a printing error in the bill. On page 21, lines 14 and 15 have been transposed in the reported bill. I ask unanimous consent that these lines be properly printed so that the reported bill will conform to the referred bill.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. BELLMON. Mr. President, will theSenator yield for a question?
Mr. McGEE. I will be glad to yield to the Senator from Oklahoma, a distinguished member of the subcommittee.
Mr. BELLMON. I thank the chairman.
I listened with great interest to the colloquy between the Senator from Wyoming and the Senator from Maine, the distinguished chairman of the Budget Committee. I have a dual interest in this bill, first as a member of the Appropriations Committee and then as a member of the Budget Committee.
To understand precisely what is happening here, we are, in this bill, funding the food stamp program at the level of $6.2 billion, and we are assuming that we can save—
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator has expired. The Senator from Hawaii is the only Senator with time.
Mr. FONG. I yield the Senator 5 minutes.
Mr. BELLMON. Let me restate it. We are funding at the level of $4.8 billion, which is the administration request.
Mr. McGEE. That was the budget request.
Mr. BELLMON. Unless the program went on in the way it is now being administered, it will cost $6.2 billion during fiscal 1977?
Mr. McGEE. That is the estimate being made now.
Mr. BELLMON. It appears realistic that some money, maybe a couple of hundred million dollars, will represent the COB savings. It looks like this food stamp program is underfunded by some $1.2 billion; is that the chairman's conclusion?
Mr. McGEE. That is pretty close. In round numbers, yes.
Mr. BELLMON. The Appropriations Committee has a reserve, after allocating all the money in the resolution, of some $2 billion; is that correct?
Mr. McGEE. That is correct.
Mr. BELLMON. So this means we are using in this bill some $1.2 billion of that $2 billion reserve fund?
Mr. McGEE. If we need it and if it is made available. Those are big "ifs." We do not know.
Mr. BELLMON. It seems to me the danger is we are not going to keep track of how much of this $2 billion we have used up. If we use it over and over again we will wake up later on in the appropriations process and discover that we have spent much more than the reserve would allow.
Mr. McGEE. The danger is that it maybe overextended, which would require either hoping that there may be some programs under extended in other areas which would even out, or the Senate will have to address itself to whatever the overage is. We have been trying to avoid that by keeping it down.
Mr. BELLMON. It seems to me that we will have to keep track of how much of that $2 billion we have used. One of these days we will be needing not $2 billion but perhaps $5 billion because we will be using the same money over and over again.
Mr. McGEE. That is right.
Mr. BELLMON. It seems to me we will have to look for places where we can cut back in some other bills because this bill does appear to be $1.2 billion over. That is to say, the actual spending will be $1.2 billion more than the bill shows.
Mr. McGEE. We do not know that yet, may I say to the Senator. That is one of the possibilities that may confront us. But we do not know that yet because of the imponderables that are still there.